Nisha  Pillai 00:00:06

Wherever we look, our world is facing a huge range of unprecedented challenges. So if you're a leader right now, how do you navigate your way through this? How do you make decisions in the teeth of so much uncertainty? How are you going to reconnect to your people and rebuild your team so that they're fit to face the future? And what does that even mean to be a leader in such an increasingly challenging world?

These and other questions I've been putting to top business leaders from across Europe, and I've had some surprisingly candid responses. So why don't you join me, Nisha Pillai, for the latest episode brought to you by Sherpany of The Agenda.

My guest today has been described by the Financial Times as one of the 50 most influential business women in the world. When she moves into a position, she thinks from the outset about the inheritance that she would like to leave in the organisation when she moves on. Well, what has she done then? Well, for seven years, she was CEO of the Swiss Logistics Company Panalpina, and she rose through the ranks to take the top position. Since then, she has had board mandated Logitech, Julius Baer, and also currently she is chairwoman of the reputed Swiss railway system. Let me introduce you to Monika Ribar.

Welcome, Monica. Good to have you with us on The Agenda.

Monika Ribar 00:01:38

Thank you very much and happy to be with you.

Nisha  Pillai 00:01:41

So when we last spoke, Monica, you told me about an executive programme you were sent on at Harvard Business School when you first took over as CEO at Panalpina, and what a big impression it made on you. Why was that? Tell us.

Monika Ribar 00:01:56

That was really an interesting story because the first thing we had to do when we arrived, it was the first evening, they asked us to write what we would like to be remembered of when we would finish the job as CEO.

So and this was, of course, a little shocking in the beginning, but it was really interesting to look at what do I want? Because if you start something like that, you think about probably the first hundred days, which is normal, but not the whole period and not what would you like people to remember you?

Nisha  Pillai 00:02:40

And what did you want your legacy to be, what did you write down?

Monika Ribar 00:02:44

For me I mean, it was a special situation of the company, of course, at that time that the company was very much patriarchal led. And I knew it was my job to bring the company into a new area of more modern styles with also modern management styles, which is, of course, a huge cultural change. And I always thought I would be the person that would lead that.

Nisha  Pillai 00:03:16

And you are, of course, the first female CEO too at Panalpina.

Monika Ribar 00:03:19

Yes. Absolutely.

Nisha  Pillai 00:03:23

Were you able to hold on to that vision? Because I understand within a few months, maybe just six months of taking over, you had to go into firefighting mode to deal with a US Department of Justice investigation into a panel with corruption being alleged. And it was pretty sticky. What did you do?

Monika Ribar 00:03:46

Yes, I mean, I would say to your first question, yes, at the end, I think I was able to do this, change the culture, change to a certain extent. On the other hand, as you said,  when you are faced with an investigation like that, which was totally new at the time, I mean, also in Switzerland, there were a few companies that already had some experience with a situation like that.  And so we were just going into it and we had support by lawyers.

But in the beginning, that was not because also Swiss lawyers had not a lot of information and a lot of know-how about how to deal with it. So it took a lot of your power at the end, which then, of course, this is a power that you don't have to manage your company anymore.

Nisha  Pillai 00:04:49

So tell us briefly what was at the heart of these allegations and this investigation, something about bribery, ports, Nigeria, those are the headlines. Can you fill in some of the details?

Monika Ribar 00:05:00

Yeah, of course. I mean, it was the core body was a case in Nigeria. So there was another company that was taken over by General Electric at that time. And they alleged themselves that they did wrong. And Panalpina was the only service provider at that time. So that's, of course, that we were part of it. And that was how the whole thing started. And of course, and that the way how this these kind of things develop is totally normal. And we had to really fight against it and to try to keep the company together during this period.

Nisha  Pillai 00:05:53

So how did you manage to do that, keep the company together, focus on the company and the employees while at the same time having to deal with the Department of Justice in the US which is a hugely powerful body?

Monika Ribar 00:06:05

The most important thing for me at the time was to keep the whole thing out of the company. So we had our lawyers and I was taking care of that. But I told also my colleagues on the management board to go their way to manage to work and not that the whole company only talks about that. So this was very important. And I think so far we managed quite well.

Nisha  Pillai 00:06:32

And what were the most painful decisions that you had to take when you were negotiating with the DOJ?

Monika Ribar 00:06:37

I mean, it was for sure. How far do we go? Where do we go in the first instance because, you know, they started to enlarge the investigation from Nigeria into other countries. How far can we go? And then the other thing is it's always also linked to people.

And I mean, for me and I said that when I was the first at the first meeting in the DOJ, I said, look, I cannot change the history of the company, but I will change the future and I will not let go people that have done probably something in a time against the rules that were different at the time. But the rules will change now and there will be a lot of people that will probably not be with the company anymore.

Nisha  Pillai 00:07:34

So stepping back from it for a moment, do you think it's important for successful leaders to have sensitive antenna, if you like, to be scanning the radar all the time for these changes in the zeitgeist, for what is acceptable behaviour and what is not acceptable behaviour and watching for when it changes?

Monika Ribar 00:07:55

Absolutely. I think this is one of the most important jobs, I think, for a leader to talk to, not only on a business side to be out there, but also on a as you said, as you call it, the zeitgeist. I mean, look at that. I remember in the in the logistics business, let's say 20 years ago, all the Scandinavian countries already at that time, they were very much focussed on environmental subjects, green subjects. All others were doing it. But, you know, not really. They didn't mean it.

This has now changed. And I think everybody who had the sense is out there early and really looked at that is ahead of the competition today. So this is one of the examples. But I think this is a very important thing to do.

Nisha  Pillai 00:08:54

So what do you think was your legacy when you moved on from Panalpina after seven years at the CEO? Did you meet the goals that you wrote down at Harvard Business School?

Monika Ribar 00:09:06

Yes, of course, because the company had changed very much in this time and and not everything was, of course, perfect, as I just said, we had to go gone through big troubles and we also lost business. And we had not recovered this business. I would have loved to do that in this in this period of time.

But it was then also the moment where I saw I cannot now do this next step that needs a new leader to do this next step, because these seven years they were quite hard and you had to to fight you. It was a huge fight at the end. And I think that's why you are also, you also burned a little bit.

And it needs then somebody else who comes with a fresh who doesn't. You know, that the other risk is that you only see risks when you have gone through such a process. And I think then it's really the time also to say I think it's better somebody with a fresh look at it, takes it and takes it a step ahead.

Nisha  Pillai 00:10:18

That's fascinating, so you really need some honesty asking yourself, am I still the best person for the job?

Monika Ribar 00:10:25

Absolutely. I'm convinced that this is important.

Nisha  Pillai 00:10:29

We've talked about so much, Monica, dealing with a crisis. And how do you deal with the flames of the crisis, leading organisations through profound culture change? Now, I want to ask you about decision making in the teeth of uncertainty.

You are the chairperson of the Swiss railway system and Covid and the post Covid era is presumably going to lead to huge changes in the way in which people travel and use the railways. So tell us about the kind of decisions that you are wrestling with at the board and CEO level at the Swiss railways.

Monika Ribar 00:11:09

Well, that's a good point, because I don't have a crystal ball to exactly know what's going to happen, because it was an interesting development. In the first lock down, people found it nice to stay home, but they wanted still to come back. Now, as this period of home office was at the end much longer than we all thought in the beginning people started to get comfortable with it.

We see this also in our own company and in the railway because we had about fifteen thousand people being at home office and I just recently had a call  with one of my colleagues and he said he wanted to meet, he said the next team meeting, we do again physically in Bern. And somebody in his team said, but then I have twice to change the public transportation system and I don't want to do that. And he said, yeah, but you know what? You did this in the past. There is no change, you know. So this is a little bit the subject.

Now, looking at that a little bit broader, and I have a lot of discussions with managing directors, with CEOs in Switzerland, also about this subject, also with people that there are businesses where you would say it's easy to make it from home. You really can do this. It's not a problem. I think we have to convince the people that it is important to meet also physically.
That a good balance between physical and pure online is probably a good thing in the future.

Now, coming back on public transportation, first of all, how can we make the system again attractive? How can we make the system also attractive not only for the commuters, the business commuters, but also for your free time, if you go to do something with the family, I mean, we had I'm not sure if this is also happening in other countries, we had in Switzerland due to the fact that people were home the bicycle had a total boom. Everybody was buying bicycles, of course, if ever possible, an electric bicycle. And now they all want to bicycle, but then go home by train. But we don't have enough space for all the bicycles. So, of course, these are also things that that we feel are changing.

We still believe that the environmental subject will stay a subject, especially also for young people. So our discussion is on the one hand. How can we make it, again, more attractive for people to use the railway because, I mean, the other thing is, as it is a governmental owned company, there is, of course, a lot of people that have an opinion about it. So all the politicians and the government, and then all the regulators. So it's really hard.

Nisha  Pillai 00:14:54

So then what are your thoughts on diversity, which is increasingly something that organisations embrace, not just gender diversity, both ethnic and geographical diversity? What difference does it make, if any?

Monika Ribar 00:15:09

For me, I'm 100 percent behind diverse teams from language, from whatever what is possible and what makes sense for a company. What I always realise is the more difference you have, the better will be the decisions because you see things from different angles. We all have a different perspective. We have that, we bring from our experience. And the more of these kind of experiences you can bring into decision making the better with these.

Nisha  Pillai 00:15:49

Monica, we've talked about a number of different things during this conversation, leading through a crisis, leading an organisation through culture change and profound culture change at that and making decisions in the face of uncertainty,  is there a final thought you want to leave our listeners with?

Monika Ribar 00:16:10

Yeah, I think we are talking about leading and about also the all the subjects you have. So I think the most important thing is you have to want to do this job, you have to want to be a leader.

Be that on the CEO position or on another position. They would never be good in this job. I think this is so much important. I have seen also CEOs that didn't want to do the job and they were suffering. And at the end everybody was suffering. And I haven't seen a person so released when this person said now I'm stepping down.

So I think this is one thing which is important, and then don't try to play a role. You have to be yourself because you cannot play a role 24/7. So the more authentic you are, the more people will believe in you.

Nisha  Pillai 00:17:14

Monika Ribar, it's been a pleasure meeting you and your authentic self. Thank you for joining us on The Agenda.

Monika Ribar 00:17:20

Thanks. Thanks very much.